Hi again,

I didn't think this discussion was still up and running, but since it is here goes some more...

1) I guess everyone's motivation in business is money, so Sugar and Tiger are no different and they are in it for the cash.
I see that Tiger is selling service to a altered, yet legal version of Sugar (it is my believe so, I know others have other opinions).
Sugar is trying to sell the Pro version and service the OS version, and using the OS version to gather customers into the Pro version.

2) If you compare the newest Tiger version you will noticed that great improvements where made to the system (the kind of improvements that can not simply be stolen from Sugar) since they didn't exist in their initial release (Sugar's one), and still don't.
On the other hand Sugar didn't Open Source modules like Products that are so many times asked by the users.

3) Given the point above, my guess is that these (Tiger's) bunch of hackers do know the code, and I mean that in a definition of having knowledge and not only having received the code (aknowledge).
Sugar on the other hand is making an additional effort by opening sugarforge, still i can not see the current cvs code.

4) SugarCRM name is referenced in every Tiger application page (credit is indeed given, and this legacy is widely refered over Tigers site and easily searcheable on the forums too)

5) Sugar has added new features to their version 3, and so did Tiger in version 4.
And that's what competition is all about, users are all about to win, and both Sugar and Tiger will prevail if they keep up with users expectations.

6) Open Source, in my opinion, is not about who owns the code but who has knowledge over the code.
If Tiger were not up to it, the Sugar would win Tigers customers, because they would turn to Sugar for assistance if Tiger disappeared.
Sugar may end up by wining after all, there is this possibility.
Users just know the risks they are taking with Open Source and they are taking them with Tiger, why?
Are they insane too? I guess not.
Users do see both these projects running and compare their roadmaps, their activities, their forums, their TCO's and come to conclusions.

Apart from some censorship I have noticed in Sugars Forums (and I am surprised because I recently found out that I was not the only one to suffer from this, very sad really) I hope both projects keep alive and kicking, because they are a good example of great work.

Sugar's people could simply respect the situation they themselves created.
If they didn't want their code to be open, then they shouldn't have opened it in the first place, what's the matter now.
This kinda of fault seeking discussion is pointless and leads to nowhere.

Again I say I like both these systems and have made my own decision, others will choose otherwise and they are free to do so, and I sincerily add that I hope they keep being free to do so.

Pedro A.